Posts by James Free

11

my disassociation drafts, longish but i'd like comments....

by isthisit in

jw
friends

<div> <div> <div>we decided to leave before being pushed, these are my letters, her letters are very similar but she is still working on them, any suggestions would be more than welcome....bear in mind my dad is po, should this change anything?

<br></br> ________________________________________________________________________________________________-- brothers this is perhaps the hardest letter i have had to write, and it is likewise the letter that i least expect to have to write.

as of this letter being received, i no longer consider myself as a jehovahs witness.

James Free

Writing a letter like this is very helpful. It gets you to put in writing what you really feel.

The actual content is not so important. The few elders who read the letter will skim-read after the first lines where you disassociate. It will not provoke them to think but will probably close the thinking process off completely. After that they will make an announcement that you are not Witnesses anymore, and the Cong. will assume you were either disfell. for immorality or jumped before you were pushed if any know you DA'd. The gossip will fill in all the gaps where the facts are not known.

Write it for yourself - you will feel better for doing it.

80

The real impact of "apostate" sites

by dozy in

in a recent discussion with a couple of district overseers and other heavies , the topic of the internet and apostate sites came up.

i asked what impact these were making , numerically , among jws.

the prevailing view was that , numerically , there was negligible impact.

James Free

To a certain point I agree with the CO's and DO's. The average rank-and-file JW does not look at 'apostate' sites and is trained not to believe anything negative about the ORG no matter how much evidence is presented. Likewise with doctrinal discussion - the average JW simply believes the GB and trusts them to know what is right when they become confused. So many object to 'deep' studies and 'hard' WT articles and close off their brain if the language fails to match the average intellect of a ten-year-old.

However, they are wrong that such sites do not have a major impact. Those with doubts already are more likely to leave when they investigate the JW's on the Internet. It is unlikely they will be DF'd for apostacy. More likely they will fade away. And potential converts are given access to information the JW's used to be able to hide. I am sure many studies stop following Internet research.

I am currently preparing an 'apostacy' site. My target will not be 'blind' JW's, but those with the brain to question.

36

Do u believe much of the JW teachings but not Gods Representative on earth?

by breeze in

.

i wonder how many are still drawn to the beliefs but just don't believe the wtbts is jehovah's representative on earth and the only hope for mankind?.

of course we know some are not correct like 607 bc and 1914 and 1975 etc.. breeze

James Free

But they wouldn't have to be God's chosen people or the only choice for a after life hope to have some of their teachings be correct.

Maybe I should have been clearer. I am referring to beliefs unique to the WT.

36

Do u believe much of the JW teachings but not Gods Representative on earth?

by breeze in

.

i wonder how many are still drawn to the beliefs but just don't believe the wtbts is jehovah's representative on earth and the only hope for mankind?.

of course we know some are not correct like 607 bc and 1914 and 1975 etc.. breeze

James Free

Really once you acknowledge they are not God's representatives on earth, everything they say in his name needs to be questioned doesnt it.

And I would add to that, once you accept they are not appointed by God, most of the teachings come crashing down.

For many years I taught and believed that everything WT believed was based on the Bible. But now I see so much of relies on INTERPRETATION by the GB, AKA FDS, and once you doubt they are God's organization you able to see the INTERPRETATION is weak and contrived.

11

Looking for sources as to number who left JWs from 1975 to 1980

by cabasilas in

i'm looking for sources as to the number of jws who left the organization from 1975 to 1980. i realize that the information can be extrapolated from the published statistics but i'd particularly like to find a citable source that gives the information, especially from the news media.

any help would be greatly appreciated.

James Free

I realize that the information can be extrapolated from the published statistics

That method is almost impossible. Although you can consider the number of baptisms there are other factore involved. 1. Deaths 2. Some baptised were previously already counted as unbaptised publishers. 3. New unbaptised publishers who may or may not stay with the Org after a few months.

Then there are the children. They do not truly represent growth from 'preaching', and the average age goes up and down according to the fashion of the moment. It used to be recommended to wait, but now it's not uncommon for 8 year-olds to be accepted for baptism.

Some mention the once-given figure of 40,000 who were disfellowshipped one year, but it did not count all the people who faded away or disassociated themselves. Between the dates you mentioned, some countries lifted bans and reporting became more accurate and showed an increase when one did not really exist.

The stats are just not there. All that can be said for sure is that overall growth has almost stopped, and is in decline in Internet-enabled countries.

125

FRESH OFF THE PRESS.... 9/1/06 WT "When a Loved One Leaves Jeh."

by schne_belly in

.

this just in for your reading displeasure......enjoy

.

James Free

WT ARTICLE: One Christian elder recalls the four years during which his wife's daughter cut off association with them. He says: "Often, even the 'good times' were difficult. If I gave my wife a gift or took her somewhere nice for a weekend, she would break down crying, remembering that her daughter did not share our happiness."

This is one of the most disgustingly corrupt things I have ever read in a WT article. They are usually so much more subtle that this. To completely reverse the experience of 99% of those who are disfellowshipped/disassociated and their families is propaganda at its worst. It makes me so angry!!

WT ARTICLE: In this regard, Delores recalls how difficult it was for her to maintain a balanced view when her daughter was disciplined by the congregation. 'What helped ne," she says, "was to read over and over again articles dealing with the reasonableness of Jehovah's arrangements."

Delores read 'articles', not the Bible. Why? Because the Bible does not support the WT actions, done in the name of God. The father, upon seeing the prodigal son, would have to continue ignoring him for up to another year or so until he were reinstated, having 'proven' his repentance if he were a modern JW.

This article distorts reality. If the WT argument was in any way credible they would not have had to stoop to using such lying tactics to manipulate their members into continuing to treat their family members as if they were dead just for leaving the WT.

20

Lebanon and Israel

by Silvia Plath in

wow you guys really made me think with the response to my faith topic, i was just arguing with a friend today over israel and invading lebabon and he quoted all the bible scriptures to me trying to show me that, israel were the chosen people of god and how god allowed them to go in and slaughter the canninties (first recorded insident of genocide) including killing small children, and i asked is that what christ jesus died for so god could order the slaughter of babies for the jews?

so you are saying that not only is god a racist, but not a god of love as well?

if god created all of us from the dust why would he love one race more than another?

James Free

Not to play devil's advocate, but it should be noted that while Isreal at least tries to avoid targeting civilians (and obviously they havn't been fully successful at this), Hisbollah purposely targets civilians...

This is simply not true.

The government of Israel is no better than Hamas and Hizbollah. They kill innocent civillians every day. It just looks that way because the media is so one sided. On any one day, if Israel kills 50 and Hizbollah kill 2 - guess what figure gets the most coverage.

35

The quickest, best way to have a Witness open their eyes to being a cult

by free2beme in

jw
friends

my sister was probably one of the most loyal witnesses out there.

all her responses were pulled right from the watchtower thinking, "sorry you feel that way, but i believe jehovah's witnesses are god's people.

" well in time we came to an agreement, "you do not bring up your negative thoughts on the religion, and i will not try to get you to come back to the religion.

James Free

Good for your sister! Satan gets blamed for everything by JW's. Hope the kid is not called Damien!! just kidding.

The response from the elders varies from congregation to congregation. A few years back my mother-in-law moved out of the congregation. Six months later her group elder - you know, the one who is supposed to shepherd the 15 or so in his care, asks why he has not seen her in a while! SHE MOVED 6 MONTHS AGO, I told him. He was upset because she had not had her cards transfered so now he had an inactive publisher in his group and the CO was due! It never occured to him that he was a complete failure as a shepherd!

28

Dis-association letter

by Suzie in

jw
friends

ok, i have thought about it too long and hard and came to the conclusion that this really is something that i want to do!

i don't know exactly how to write my letter to dis-associate myself and exactly who i should send it too.

i was readding somethings before that had talked about people sending a copy to there old friends to let them know as well.

James Free

Once the elders see "I am informing you that I no longer desire to be recognized as a Jehovah's Witness", they stop reading

I have to agree with the comment above. I have seen some detailed and well written letters put on this site. If it makes the writer feel better then why not? But it will have no effect on the elders and no one in the congregation will read what you wrote. They don't even announce you are the one to dis-associate. They will just announce .....is no longer one of JW. Then gossip will supply the 'details'.

11

I Had a Discussion at a JW Booth Today About UNO, Cano and Other Topics

by GermanXJW in

i was at home when my wife called and said: "guess who is having a booth at the market place today?

" i replied: "jw!

i grabbed my printed papers about the un scandal (which i always have near the door), a camera and printed the cbs report on jesus cano.

James Free

I think they sometimes set up booths at universities too. The man lied about shunning. I say 'lied' because he knew all disfellowshipped ones are shunned. If their policy is so correct, why do they have to lie about it?